Racism, Bigotry, Homophobes, and the law - A civilized discussion : RSS 0.91http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/low.mtmen-usRacism, Bigotry, Homophobes, and the law - A civilized discussion : RSS 0.91http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/low.mtm<![CDATA[lynxears @ 11/5/2009 9:37:03 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q34« gammerus : Yes, but what does it mean in the present tense.What do you think it means?]]><![CDATA[gammerus @ 11/5/2009 7:44:47 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q33« lynxears : I'd say because there is no history of a "white" minstrel show, but there is a (racist) history in America of white people dressing up as black people for the purpose of making fun of them in a demeaning way.

One of the reasons "White Chicks" was humorous was it took that concept and turned it around; humor often exploits our preconceptions. One of the themes of "White Chicks" was the power of stereotypes. The humor is in the black men not understanding the white-blonde-girl world and sometimes getting it wrong.

But "White Chicks" wasn't meant to be overtly cruel to white blonde girls the way a minstrel show was intended to be cruel to poor blacks/former slaves.Yes, but what does it mean in the present tense.]]><![CDATA[coldbladed @ 11/5/2009 3:41:15 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q32
The work place, on the other hand, is not a public place and there is no protection for free speech there. Even if your work occurs out in public you are an entity of the corporation and should be held responsible to it.]]><![CDATA[lynxears @ 11/5/2009 3:11:27 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q31« dingbat:Erm No. She was saying the opposite actually.

Why is the above acceptable whereas the cheerleader who blackened up wasn't?I'd say because there is no history of a "white" minstrel show, but there is a (racist) history in America of white people dressing up as black people for the purpose of making fun of them in a demeaning way.

One of the reasons "White Chicks" was humorous was it took that concept and turned it around; humor often exploits our preconceptions. One of the themes of "White Chicks" was the power of stereotypes. The humor is in the black men not understanding the white-blonde-girl world and sometimes getting it wrong.

But "White Chicks" wasn't meant to be overtly cruel to white blonde girls the way a minstrel show was intended to be cruel to poor blacks/former slaves.]]><![CDATA[gammerus @ 11/5/2009 2:58:39 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q30« dingbat : Erm No. She was saying the opposite actually.

Why is the above acceptable whereas the cheerleader who blackened up wasn't?I'm also curious.]]><![CDATA[dingbat @ 11/5/2009 6:02:31 AM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q29« madhatteraggie : So you're saying two black men dressing up as two white women doesn't ruffle any feathers? Really?Erm No. She was saying the opposite actually.

Why is the above acceptable whereas the cheerleader who blackened up wasn't?]]><![CDATA[madhatteraggie @ 11/5/2009 1:18:28 AM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q28« choco : But these are disparaging caricatures and prove my point that darker people don't slap on baby powder or face paint like that when trying to not raise eyebrows, ruffle feathers, or cause any other kind of ruckus. Get it?So you're saying two black men dressing up as two white women doesn't ruffle any feathers? Really?]]><![CDATA[choco @ 11/5/2009 12:29:59 AM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q27<![CDATA[gammerus @ 11/5/2009 12:03:43 AM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q26« choco:I'm glad you mention these two things. Stop and think: do you really see any darker skinned person putting on baby powder or talc to portray a lighter skinned person when they want to impersonate? I take it you don't watch the chappele show

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also
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]]><![CDATA[chinook @ 11/4/2009 11:48:22 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q25« Moe : Aren't these two statements in conflict? :OPQuit being such a doodie-head!]]><![CDATA[choco @ 11/4/2009 11:34:26 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q24Anyway, crazy skit. Reminds me of a cleaner Chappelle (I didn't watch all of it, so I'm not sure if it stayed clean).]]><![CDATA[IcePigs @ 11/4/2009 10:37:19 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q23« choco : I'm glad you mention these two things. Stop and think: do you really see any darker skinned person putting on baby powder or talc to portray a lighter skinned person when they want to impersonate?
Yes]]><![CDATA[dingbat @ 11/4/2009 6:27:19 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q22
Doing so to parody another race is a no-no.]]><![CDATA[choco @ 11/4/2009 6:03:48 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q21« dingbat:

I find the story about the cheerleader putting on black makeup and being called racist because of it disturbing.

This BBC programme shows the lengths that lots of asian women go through to try to make their skin lighter in an attempt to become "white".

Why is one wrong when the other isn't?

There was no malice intended in her "blacking out" she was in fancy dress if a black person whitened up to dress up as say "eminem" would there be any kind of furore?I'm glad you mention these two things. Stop and think: do you really see any darker skinned person putting on baby powder or talc to portray a lighter skinned person when they want to impersonate?

Take this over the top radio/tv personality, Wendy Williams. She decided to dress up like Dolly Parton for H'ween and donned a wig and some comparable clothes and called it a day. (She already has ginormous implants, so you can imagine that she was able to evoke her spirit fairly easily.)

You *never* see darker people feeling the need to take it that extra step and paint their skin lighter, because the result just looks so jarring, so weird that it takes away from effect and ends up looking worse even.

Really, think about the last time you saw something like that. While the cheerleader didn't use black-as-tar paint, I feel like it was still weird to see her dressed like that. If I wanted to go as Abe Lincoln, I'd get a top hat and a beard, not a tub of off-whitish paint for my face and arms and hands too.
And regarding women in Asia bleaching their skin: whole 'nother can of worms there. To sum it up, it is wrong, obviously.

Companies like Unilever make sure to have ad campaigns of "love yourself" or "be natural" here in the States with Dove's marketing, but in China and India, they pump out those skin whiteners like there is no tomorrow. They know people over here (in the U.S. at least) would raise a s#itstorm!]]><![CDATA[dingbat @ 11/4/2009 5:05:49 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q20« suebe :

*looks down*

Yup, I'm still a woman. (.)(.)
« suebe :

*looks down*

Yup, I'm still a woman. (.)(.)
Looks down too


(o)(o)


Am I a woman too?

Or do Moobs not count.

maybe you should look further.


Anyways.......

I find the story about the cheerleader putting on black makeup and being called racist because of it disturbing.

This BBC programme shows the lengths that lots of asian women go through to try to make their skin lighter in an attempt to become "white".

Why is one wrong when the other isn't?

There was no malice intended in her "blacking out" she was in fancy dress if a black person whitened up to dress up as say "eminem" would there be any kind of furore?]]><![CDATA[suebe @ 11/4/2009 4:12:27 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q19« chinook : Words can be just words, and I think people should be able to say what they want, however dumb or ignorant.

Words can easily be turned into actions, and these actions have to be punished, IMHO. That's definitely where a line should be.

Does calling Moe a doodie-head go hand in hand with not assigning him tasks at work because your perception of doodie-heads is that they're incapable of doing xxx task?Naming calling in the office can cause a hostile work environment. And words can often be misheard especially when taken out of context.

Several years ago a member of my staff (who is white) was on a personal phone call and was talking about another friend who is South African. She was also discussing the menu for an upcoming party and mentioned the word "watermelon".

Another person (who is black), working at the time as a temporary, overheard parts of the one sided conversation and confronted the woman after the call. She accused her of being racist and later followed her out of the office at the end of the day and threatened her with physical harm.

I was out of the office that day, the incident was reported to my manager and the next day I told the temp that her assignment was ending.

Ironically, the offended wooman is also a Jehovah's Witness. Never tried to "preach" in the office, was always polite. It was shocking to see how she misinterpreted another person's conversation and her strong reaction.

« chinook :Are you calling Suebe a woman every single damn day, or every time she makes a mistake? That's crossing the line, IMHO.
*looks down*

Yup, I'm still a woman. (.)(.)]]><![CDATA[PulsisX @ 11/4/2009 4:05:50 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q18
Yes, there should be some kind of consequence.

I suppose you could say ignorance is a type of punishment. Living in a world closed off from any people different from yourself is a type of punishment. In all the cases mentioned at the threads beginning the people are public figures and not only that they are representatives of larger groups. I imagine no sport organization wants to be seen as bigoted. So I think it is reasonable that they are getting some kind of punishment. Now you could argue are they getting punished for saying/thinking/doing something provocative or because they damaged the image/property of the individual groups they represent. I suspect unless you got into the conference room where they got their asses chewed you will never know.

When you are going to get all sociological you need to get into generalization. All groups of people are going to have prejudices. I think it is a human trait that people in general are more comfortable with what they know and anxious about the unknown. I think that addressing the anxiety of these unknowns with some kind of cultural exchanges can go a long way to reduce negative prejudices.

When you and your friends are calling each other names does that count? No more than when you and your friends smoked pot or did some underage drinking.]]><![CDATA[madhatteraggie @ 11/4/2009 4:00:30 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q17« Dontgivethedogchoccy : Shame on your parents is all I could think when I read this

You seriously thought at 8-9 years-old that n****r was a perfectly fine word to use let alone around black people? Seriously?I didn't know any better. I didn't know what the word meant or that it was such a slanderous word. My parents grew up in a different time then I did and though I don't approve of their point of view, they're still my parents and they raised me with what little they had to the best of their ability.

And again, I was ignorant at the time to what that word meant. After all this happened my parent's toned down their use of slander, realizing what they had done.]]><![CDATA[choco @ 11/4/2009 3:15:06 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q16Words are so powerful, and as touched on by someone else already, they can lead to actions and other measures that move past just being something "to shrug off" and become some institutionalized or widely accepted negativity towards people if enough of a group start echoing the same sentiment.]]><![CDATA[Dontgivethedogchoccy @ 11/4/2009 2:06:03 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q15« madhatteraggie:Shame on your parents is all I could think when I read this

You seriously thought at 8-9 years-old that n****r was a perfectly fine word to use let alone around black people? Seriously?]]><![CDATA[madhatteraggie @ 11/4/2009 2:01:33 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q14
When I was in 3rd grade I was very much a shy girl and had very few friends(maybe 3 at most). I grew up in a Roman Catholic, Italian/Sicilian household and my family did have narrow-minded views about people from other cultures/races/religion/etc.

So many racial slurs were thrown about willy-nilly and half the time I didn't know what those words meant.

So one day in school while we were standing on the lunch line, this girl named Tamika and her friend Natalie were standing in line in front of me talking about how hard it was to maintain her hair. Both of the girls were black.

So I said to them "Well thats because you're a n****r right?" I said it not in a hurtful, demeaning way but in a way one would descirbe someone as Afro-American. Her and her friend turn and looked at me saying "What the hell did you just call us?" And I said it again, adding on "I though you people were proud to be n****rs? I'm proud for you guys."

After that we got our lunches, I sat alone because Tamika had pulled my friends away from me and there was a large group gathering at her table. I knew that for some reason I was in trouble but couldn't understand why.

So it's recess now I'm outside playing with my friends and then the bell rings for us to go back in. I turn to go walk up to the building and get decked in the back of the head by my friend with a stick. Suddenly more kids are joining in and I realize that my ENTIRE 3rd grade class is ganging up on me and beating the hell out of me, calling me white cracker ho, dumb b***h, fat ass, etc. The qorst part of all this was that I saw my friends in the crowd jeering at me and joining in with beating me up.

The teachers break it up and ask what happened and everyone said that I started the fight by throwing racial slurs at everyone. Instead of giving a suspension to the people that were beating me up, a group of 42 kids, I was suspended for a day.

So how much can words hurt someone? Look at me, as a kid I was ignorant to them, used them, and now live with it til this day. After the fight I wasn't able to make friends until 7th grade, I became very withdrawn; which then was followed by an even more horrific act commited on me in 4th grade, and to this day I avoid confrontation like its the plague fearing that I'm going to have a repeat of 3rd grade.

So yes words can hurt very much, even though they shouldn't.]]><![CDATA[Moe @ 11/4/2009 12:53:45 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q13« chinook : Words can be just words, and I think people should be able to say what they want, however dumb or ignorant
« chinook :I guess it all comes down to context.
Aren't these two statements in conflict? :OP]]><![CDATA[chinook @ 11/4/2009 12:43:17 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q12« Moe : Aren't these two statements in conflict?Not really, but I guess I could have explained myself more.

Making the same comment repeatedly could be considered harassment, which is more of an action than just words.

I guess it all comes down to context.]]><![CDATA[86Apex @ 11/4/2009 12:41:54 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q11« icepigs : Bob Griese (of ESPN) was suspended for a week.
Larry Johnson (KC Chiefs) was suspended for two weeks which will cost him $600,000.
Drew Gooden (Dallas Mavericks coach) has been accused of a racial slur and is being investigated by the league.
Whitney Isleib (Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader) is under fire for her "black-face" Halloween costume
Just a correction. Drew Gooden is a player for the Mavericks, not the coach.]]><![CDATA[suebe @ 11/4/2009 12:39:00 PM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q10booted out of a taxi by the driver because they hugged.

The driver seriously needs sensitivity and diversity training or should get into another line of work.]]><![CDATA[Dontgivethedogchoccy @ 11/4/2009 11:44:41 AM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q9
The placards and signs they hold up at funerals may just be words but imagine the hurt and upset they cause grieving families

Imams on street corners spread hate through their words, but those words plants seeds, seeds that grow into actions.

Individuals should be totally responsible for what comes out of their mouths and not have to have legal mandates placed upon them as Maven said BUT when a public figure, as all IP's examples are, uses offensive or hateful speech or engages in actions unbecoming their public status then I personally think they should be held accountable for that.

If their employer feels that their actions or words negatively affect their position then they are, in my opinion, well within their rights to take action legal or otherwise.]]><![CDATA[hoosker @ 11/4/2009 11:43:30 AM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q8« Moe : Aren't these two statements in conflict?Typical]]><![CDATA[Moe @ 11/4/2009 11:37:45 AM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q7« chinook : Words can be just words, and I think people should be able to say what they want, however dumb or ignorant.
« chinook : Are you calling Suebe a woman every single damn day, or every time she makes a mistake? That's crossing the line, IMHO.
Aren't these two statements in conflict?]]><![CDATA[chinook @ 11/4/2009 11:29:17 AM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q6
Words can easily be turned into actions, and these actions have to be punished, IMHO. That's definitely where a line should be.

Does calling Moe a doodie-head go hand in hand with not assigning him tasks at work because your perception of doodie-heads is that they're incapable of doing xxx task?

Are you calling Suebe a woman every single damn day, or every time she makes a mistake? That's crossing the line, IMHO.]]><![CDATA[Moe @ 11/4/2009 10:57:05 AM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q5
On one hand I understand that a joke is just a joke. But what about those to whom the joke is directed? Being a white straight Christian American male, I don't get too many directed at me so I don't know what it's like. Is it OK because we're a tight community? Is it NOT OK for the same reason? Should we not post them out of respect for our friends here who are different than us? Or should our group recognize that stupid humor is simply stupid humor?

Is it OK for a black person or a homosexual or whatever to post a joke that derides their own group? If so, why...why is it OK for a Jew to crack a Jewish joke where it would not be for me?

Is it OK that I very often would call a friend of mine a queer and a fag and he would yell at me for just coming to his house to read his cool comic books? We both knew exactly where we stood, and were good friends. But in the end...was it OK or harmful in some way?

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The problem is that no, words shouldn't hurt, no, slurs shouldn't be damaging.

But we all know they are. I was called names from about the 5th grade that shaped how I saw myself and I am struggling even today to get past the scars left by those words. If I could go back and just get beaten up instead, I most likely would--at least then I'd have scars others could see and understand.

I suspect that verbal assault becomes actionable when it crosses the line from the occasional/infrequent into the constant/daily. The relationship between the insulter and the insulted is critical as well, though there are people who will take offense at every slight even if it's from a total stranger and not directed specifically at them.

It's a messy world. I'd rather people learn to buck up and deal with this kind of thing on their own, without requiring legal mandates on how to behave in public. Not how to think, just how to treat those around you.]]><![CDATA[Marli @ 11/4/2009 10:04:49 AM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q3« hoosker : I thought we all decided to move past all of the racism, and focus our hate on the fags.Believe it or not, that was EXACTLY the kind of joke I needed after that f**king election last night!]]><![CDATA[hoosker @ 11/4/2009 10:00:11 AM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q2
Racism, Bigotry, Homophobes, and the law - A civilized discussion
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<![CDATA[icepigs @ 11/4/2009 9:13:03 AM]]>http://sex.plime.com/f/7400/1/rss0_91.rss#q1Wiktionary).

Racist: An advocate of racism. ((Wiktionary).

(Geez!!! Round and round we go!)


racism

1. The belief that each race has distinct and intrinsic attributes.
2. The belief that one race is superior to all others.
3. Prejudice or discrimination based upon race. ((Wiktionary).

slur: An insult or slight. ((Wiktionary).

bigot (plural bigots)

1. one who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
2. one who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.((Wiktionary).


homophobic

1. Relating to or characteristic of homophobia or homophobes. ((Wiktionary)

(here we go again! I just love the dictionary, don't you?)

homophobia (uncountable)

1. (obsolete, individual occurrences) A pathological fear of mankind.
2. Fear of homosexuals.
3. Antipathy towards homosexuals. ((Wiktionary)



Alright - I'm done with the dictionary.

But through that, we've learned that a that a Racial Slur is a derogatory word or statement made by one person to another person (or group of people) based on racial superiority (or inferiority) rooted in prejudice and/or discrimination.

A bigoted slur is a derogatory word or statement made by one person to another person (or group of people) based on the feeling of Race, Religious, or political superiority (or inferiority) rooted in prejudice and/or discrimination.

A homophobic slur a derogatory word or statement made by one person to another person (or group of people) based on sexual orientation rooted in prejudice and/or discrimination.

*****If there is anything incorrect to this point, please let me know*****

Currently in the news:

Bob Griese (of ESPN) was suspended for a week.
Larry Johnson (KC Chiefs) was suspended for two weeks which will cost him $600,000.
Drew Gooden (Dallas Mavericks coach) has been accused of a racial slur and is being investigated by the league.
Whitney Isleib (Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader) is under fire for her "black-face" Halloween costume


I know there are more than just those currently in the news (and feel free to reference any related article in your reply).


Let me preface this conversation with this blanket statement:

Racism, Bigotry, and Homophobia is an undesirable trait - ones I do not harbor. They are mean, hateful, and have no place in society.


With that said...here's the reason for this thread.

Should there be a punishment for a slur? It's just words. I was taught at a very young age "Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."

Yea, words do hurt. Hate and prejudice does hurt. But is it truly a punishable offense?

Why (or why not)?

And if it is, where do you draw the line? Or is this just the "thought police" telling you what you can and can't think.


If I called Moe a "doodie-head", will my boss have grounds to fire me (or suspend me without pay)?

While talking to Suebe, if I say "You're such a woman", can I lose my job?

Both of those are "An Insult or a Slight" based on my perceived superiority.



Discuss..]]>